Black and White

Peter: 23rd Mar 2005 - 17:10 GMT

arkansas-57:
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/little_rock.htm

ardoyne-01:
http://www.serve.com/pfc/sattacks/sep01att.html

i think the goal was to make a parallel to non-sectarian civil rights, between NI and America.

Gaz: 23rd Mar 2005 - 17:21 GMT

it looks like a delightful neighbourhood, perhaps i will move there

Reggie: 18th Oct 2005 - 10:50 GMT

its a shithole and the only reason is because none of the lazy, car stealing, pensioner mugging ballbags have any self respect and prefer to live in squallor among burned out cars and empty bottles of buckfast. all they do is moan about no jobs but wont get up and look for one choosing to stay at home and breed like cockroaches. if they want to compare themselves to the blacks in america then rock on because they all think the world owes them a living instead of climbing on their feet and making one themselves. Fuckin ardoyne, its only a shithole cos thats the standard they aspire to, soap dodgers.

Dutchman: 22nd Oct 2005 - 16:09 GMT

I like the word soapdodgers, seriously.. i'l keep that in mind.

concerned: 18th Nov 2005 - 00:18 GMT

re-focus your anger towards grammer usage; this may prove to be helpful.

allyo: 7th Jan 2006 - 17:10 GMT

The painting's actually on the side of a shop. As Peter says - the shop keeper didn't like it but what could he do? I work on both sides of the sectarian divide in Belfast. I have to say that most people I have contact with are, generally, fine. Unfortunately, if you go to any city in the world; arseholes are thick on the ground. In the words of Billy Connolly, " never go looking for a fuckwit - they'll find you."

Jamie: 7th Jan 2006 - 17:58 GMT

I think the social tensions that exist in the rainy top right corner of ireland are quite universal in their nature. I'm talkin of course of the mindless and implicit ground-in hatred. And i'm thinking that protestant vs catholic is not a million miles away from black vs white or our good old friends red vs blue (in no particular order). The whole northern ireland thing does appear to manifest itself in rather more petty outlets however, which aids the cause of neither side, both in the eyes of the involved governments and the international community at large. This, to the extent that the vast majority of english/scottish/welsh (and i deliberately steer clear of the term 'british') people have zero interest and even less of an understanding of the conflict. Many not even realising that N.I. is even a part of the UK. Seriously.

Ronan - North Belfast: 22nd Apr 2006 - 17:02 GMT

Ardoyne is in NORTH Belfast!!!

Reggie it's bigotted people like you that hinder progression in such segregated societies, calling them "lazy, car stealing, pensioner mugging ballbags" is a gross over generalisation, how many people have you even met from Ardoyne? Any?

I'm normally willing to admit when the republicans in Northern Ireland take things too far but i have to protest here, and defend this mural, it dipicts girls wearing red jumpers -clearly indicating they were students at the catholic Holy Cross Girls Primary School. The student body of the then, around 230 catholic primary school girls (thats ages ranging from 4 to 11) were caught up in, no, stike that; they were the TARGET OF sectarian throwing of stones, fireworks and blast bombs:

"For twelve weeks in 2001 Holy Cross primary school, located in the Protestant Glenbryn estate in north Belfast, was the focus of conflict. The scenes of naked sectarianism, including the throwing of a blast bomb, horrified television viewers around the world" -http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/eyewitness/holycross/index.shtml

There is a clear parallel here with the "Little Rock Nine" which is the common term applied to the nine African-American students who were prevented from attending Little Rock Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas during the Little Rock Integration Crisis of 1957. Although The Holy Cross atrocity of 2001 didn't involve integrating a school, it was denying the students access to the school because they didn't want the catholics walking through their area.

Thats True Jamie, a lot of people from Britain don't even know that Northern Ireland is in The UK, so why is it? if the brits are so unconcerned about us and the irish free-staters would happily welcome us as their own, and often refer to Ireland as the "Island of Ireland" including the occupied six counties (N.I.) with it.
Many loyalists feel they would not be welcomed in a United Ireland, when this seems almost entirley untrue, even the current Irish state flag was adopted as a symbol of the irish community's unity- green for irish catholic and orange for irish protestant.

Nuvolari: 5th May 2006 - 09:00 GMT

Can someone reccomend a good book to understand what happened in Ireland. I read a couple of years ago the history of someone named Collins (ex IRA) and i would like to know more.

Regards from spain.

Liam: 10th Aug 2006 - 11:45 GMT

Nuvolari,

If you want to know about the troubles in Ireland I recommend the Peter Taylor series. He wrote 3 books:
-Provos
-Brits
_Loyalists

You should read all of them to understand all sides of the conflict.

Shamrock76: 3rd Sep 2006 - 21:07 GMT

Everybody does have the right! Coinnigh se fior mates!

Disgusted: 7th Sep 2006 - 01:36 GMT

Has anyone Bothered to ask why this crap started?
nationalists decided they would take down loyalist flags in protestant areas because they "offended" the children on their way to school ...who incidently had walked through those areas for years with no complaints or harrasment. so work out who is the aggressor

Disgusted: 7th Sep 2006 - 01:45 GMT

Myself personly, i am DISGUSTED with the whole protestant/catholic british/irish issue.
I myself am a protestant and i love Ireland to me its the best country in the world. I consider myself an irish man (that dont got down too well with the english) but thats how it is. If i was on holiday i'd rather be with sean from the falls road than john from fleet street. If that offends the F**k you

susannah: 7th Sep 2006 - 02:03 GMT

This is an ETHNIC / POLITICAL / ECONOMIC fight, it has nothing to do with religion and its shameful.

Karlo: 28th Sep 2006 - 19:11 GMT

Disgusted
Are you saying that the children of holy cross school deserved the treatment they got,or that it was the responsability of the parents?
How can young girls aged between 5-11 be aggressors?
Did they desrve to have bags of urine thrown at them?..along with bags of human exrement,have porn mags flashed in their faces,spat upon,have grown men and women wear halloween masks to scare them,have vile language hurled at them and,heres the real shocker,have hand grenades thrown at them!!!!
All in front of the worlds media AND the 'police'.

I know you are disgusted,but im not so sure what you are actually disgusted at.

once republican: 22nd Oct 2006 - 12:45 GMT

we all know what happened in the past...where has it gotten us? everybody has an opinion on why different conflicts started, if we keep bringing up the past and blaming the other side, we will never get anywhere. time to wise up and focus all this energy we waste on sectarianism on building a successful, healthy society, be that a united irish society, a british society or a completely independant state. and yes, it can be done!!

Danny: 12th Aug 2007 - 14:32 GMT

What happened at Holy Cross is Northern Irish hatred and sectarianism at its finest. Protestants target Catholic children with pipe bombs and urine, the police do nothing to arrest them, and the British media reports something along the lines of "The Protestants are angry because (add rumour about Union Jack flag here)". It is as bad as Little Rock. This is naked hatred and the police stand by

BigBankHank: 23rd Jun 2008 - 12:55 GMT

I was horrified when this went out 8 years ago but some of the same people that were walking their children to school via Glenbryn were the same persons that carried out attacks against the people of Glenbryn and wider afield, this is why some of the residents took a stand (not excusing the behavior of some for one second)

Karlo: 1st Sep 2008 - 07:14 GMT

Wrong.None of the people who walked their children to school were involved in any attacks.There had been a number of incidents involving people from both communities previous to this,and im not going to argue who started it,(its pointless) but there was absoloutely no question that any of the parents and none of those poor children were involved in any such attacks.
Regardless of the sentiment that exsisted among the Glenbryn residents,nothing,absoloutely NOTHING can excuse the vile and twisted manner in which they took their 'stand'.
The people who took part in the protest behaved like a pack of sickminded psychos,bitter in the extreme who deserved to be put behind bars.
A protest should always be carried out with at least some semblence of dignity.
But to wave porn mags,wear scary masks,hurl vile and abusive insults at those parents and young girls was bad enough,but to then throw urine filled bags and shitfilled bags at them then to top it off,throw a fucking handgrenade was nothing short of criminally insane.
This,in front of the worlds media and with the cops doing NOTHING only epitomises not only the Loyalist mindset,but the whole ethos of the Northern Irish statelet.
NO-ONE was charged with any offences.
Sorry mate,but they lost here-BIG TIME.
Disgusting.
Fucking disgusting.

Tracy 3rd Sep 2008 21:30 GMT: 4th Sep 2008 - 20:58 GMT

All I want to say is I walked that road day in and day out for one reason being to take my daughters to school .
On the odd Occision when I looked around me I seen something that would never leave my mind as a parent .
I seen protestant children in full school uniform standing along with adult protesters these children were holding posters with vile disgusting slogans wrote on them .The children shouted the most hurtful and offence abuse at little 4 to 11 yr old girls the protestant children must have been kept out of school to attend this protest . Most days the weather was cold and damp one day it rained so heavy it was like a river running down Glenbryn Prd . And still the protesters came out they even brought their little babies in buggies what kind of a parent would lift their little infant out of a warm bed to attend a protest like that..I myself had to get my work hours changed to make sure i was always there on time to leave and collect my girls . unlike a normal chool run you could ask a family member to do it for you by because of the danger I felt it was to much to ask anyone . Never mind the adults the kids on both sides did not deserve this . I would never dream of taking my children to such a protest thank god my kids are not Secteran they are well mannered balanced young girls with respect for anyone they meet . But thats a lot to do with their Mentors and the Dignfied manner in which Fr Aiden Troy and Fr Gary help them to walk the road . I hope some of this rubs of onto the angy people on this site and makes them come to tearms with their anger and learn how to manage it If little girls can do it you can Reggie you seem the most torn up and angry person so far ....good luck and god bless

Karlo: 27th Dec 2008 - 21:36 GMT

Well said Tracy.
It really is sad to see things like this in this supposed day and age.
Hopefully someday those of us who would bring their children up to hate will see the destructive capacity this has and the damage they do to their kids and everyone they will meet in life..
This is where our only chance lies-with the kids.
It ALL comes from the home.
I do not for one second subscribe to the notion that they would learn more from the street than what they would learn at home.
This can only be attributed to bad parenting.
Its far too easy to become lazy.
As a parent,i could not take my eye off the ball for one second-the battle with the street is a very very difficult one,but we must do our very best to educate our kids and keep them informed as to how and why this world works.
They are our only hope.

Respect

JOHN Bhoy: 3rd Mar 2009 - 23:37 GMT

During the summer i visited the Ardoyne and it was a real eye-opener. It gave me more of an insight to what happened during the troubles and i found out the people of ardoyne are the hardest people i have been around. I also went to the shankill which was more of a shitehole than the ardoyne. They paint their kirbs blue, red and white. They probably stole the fuckin paint, jakey bastards. The ardoyne is woring class and no matter what any1 says about it it's fuckin brilliant. God bless the pope and fuck ure ulster, Bobby Sands MP

Karlo: 24th Mar 2009 - 17:05 GMT

JB,Just to let u know,people from Ardoyne dont actually call it 'the' Ardoyne.
That title was employed by the British army to imply it was a dangerous place.
Well,it was to them of course,but its a bit like saying 'the' Wild west.
Just plain Ardoyne wouls suffice.
Respect.