Ulster Young Militants: Shankhill

Peter: 3rd Mar 2005 - 16:36 GMT

finally!! a new post to add to this one and this one. please post more!

norniron: 4th Mar 2005 - 11:20 GMT

and on the flip side here's an article on Derry's Republican Bogside area.

Dutch: 17th Mar 2005 - 23:47 GMT

Re: Ulster Young Militants: Shankhill

can you az a outsider (Tourist) go there with out gettin shot by Protestants or Catholic's

Jamie: 18th Mar 2005 - 00:33 GMT

I've never been there, but been to the waterside (loyalist area of derry) a few times which has a similar feel to it. Menacing murals, red white and blue painted curbs and such. never got shot at or witnessed any kind of gang banging activity. Maybe i was just lucky. There are places you shouldn't go. Interface areas, real hardcore ghetto type neighbourhoods. It's best to stay on the tourist route in Belfast in my opinion unless u really know where your going.

irisrutherford: 14th May 2005 - 19:09 GMT

HELLO Iwas born and bred on the SHANKILL RD along time ago .Imust admadmit it was agreat and exciting place to live then.YOUwere welcome in any one.s house and felt safe and free to stay out late playing and later going dancing .Irember in july when the orange arches went up to celebrate the twelf and half of the world seemed to come up malvern st to see and enjoyenjoy the fun lasting some times all nite great times greatmeoriezs

michael: 17th Aug 2005 - 23:01 GMT

i was brought up in rathcoole.
still a youth and always a loyalist!
UDA UFF UYM
R.I.P GRUGG, CARSON
QUIS SEPERABIT

Peter: 14th Oct 2005 - 14:00 GMT

i'll never quite understand people that come here with one-sentence cliches... like "up da ardoyne!" and "fuck the pope!" and "UFF 4 evar!" and the like.

we've all heard the mottoes and chantes. how about thinking for yourself and saying something halfway intelligent thatn jsut repeating hackneyed, tired slogans that do nothign but piss the other side of and create flamewars on here?

so youre a parrot that can repeat tired slogans. good for you.

ging: 30th Oct 2005 - 13:15 GMT

i am a loyalist and always will be but there are to much taigs in my area in lisburn but there is more people fightin agaisnt each other instead we could work to get them all out. gingo womble till i die

dean brannigan: 18th Nov 2005 - 14:24 GMT

bridgeton loyalist flute band no.1 mon the wombles

dean brannigan: 18th Nov 2005 - 14:26 GMT

blfb n.1 mon the wombles uff uda uym q.s fuk the pope and the ira

Catherine Penfold-Waxman: 18th Nov 2005 - 15:38 GMT

Bungo!
www.answers.com/topic/the-wombles
I feel homesick.

Jamie: 18th Nov 2005 - 16:01 GMT

Uncle Bulgaria. He can remember the days when he wasn't behind the times; with his map of the world. Pick up the pieces and make them into something new. That's what we do.

red: 14th Dec 2005 - 18:44 GMT

fucking brillant keep it up.lurgan uda d'batt i'coy.quis separabit

Bradley HARKNESS !: 16th Dec 2005 - 23:15 GMT

Bridgeton Loyalist Flute Band no#1 ! womble till i die ! mon eh gers ! UDA -UFF -UYM !

Wee Mackey...D.Coy..2nd Batt: 15th Feb 2006 - 22:19 GMT

most of the taigs i know want to be british.. Yet some say they want a united Ireland... As long as we have our Super UFF we will mantain our civil libertys and serve the Queen as our fathers and grandfathers did...Thank-God we had Cromwell and parliment.. God save the Queen and fuck the pope and all his pedophlie preists....

Bangor UFF/UDA: 15th Feb 2006 - 22:25 GMT

10000 men will fight an die for we are men of the UDA....Quis-Separabit...Up the UFF....fuck the pope

skippy: 8th Mar 2006 - 19:56 GMT

wat the fuckin hell is rong wit belfast?? wer are livin in a new century n people stil fightin over things dat can be fixed over fones n tlkin rather than guns???? a fone call is cheaper than a gun? who agrees?

Open minded unionist: 12th Mar 2006 - 18:28 GMT

I agree, too many people in this country would sooner shoot eachother than actually sort things out. And these groups just increase the harsh feelings, although to be fair, w/o them who would maintain any level of authority in northern ireland, the PSNI certainly wouldnt do shit.

torontofreelance: 26th Mar 2006 - 00:09 GMT

So stupid, You guys worry about killing each other. I will take care of my family and create a bright wealthy future. No one cares. The "troubles" are ignored by most clever people, just like any other "gang" warfare. One white trash group fighting another. The "troubles" now are a lot to do with control over the drugs and contraband trade.

EvilGentleman: 26th Mar 2006 - 01:49 GMT

Having lived through a different type of troubles, I know how hard it can be to deal with the legacies of colonialism. My ancestors fought the French for the British (and won!), they fought the Americans for the British (and won!). What did the British do? They screwed us! Forced us onto reserves and treated us like second-class citizens. A couple centuries pass, and we are now getting screwed by Canada and the United States. And yet, we have managed to stay alive, educate our children, and actually earn ourselves a decent place in the world. 16 years ago, we almost went to war with Canada, we stood up to the relentless encroachments upon what little we had left, and the resulting armed standoffs forced Canada to start dealing with the countless native grievances over broken deals and treaties. My town is peaceful today, we know that a life of constant battling will get us nowhere fast. If we absolutely need to, we can always rise to meet any future challenges, but we truly want to live in peace and continue building decent futures for our children, not live in a constantly disrupted world. For those of you in The North/Ulster, why do you kill each other over the cruel legacies of a British Empire long gone? Yes, the British invaded Ireland many centuries ago. Yes, the British treated the Irish like virtual slaves for centuries. But if you do a DNA test, you bloody twits have the same ethnic mix now. The Brits used to be Celts, until the invasions from the mainland mixed their blood, and that mix has long ago been passed to the Irish during the centuries of occupation. Any Brits still in Ireland have become Irish in many ways, and the Irish have been mixed with the Brits for ages as well. You are now ONE people, but yet you still wish to kill one another over what? Religion? Take a Catholic, add some water and a touch of Queen, and you have an Anglican. Your religions have 1000 times more things in common than they do differences. A Christian is a Christian, why fight over semantics? I know there have been many recent stupid crimes commited by both sides against the other, and this keeps the wounds very recent, but you are the same people. Just like the Israelis and The Arabs, or the Cypriot Turks and Greeks, they are also other examples of peoples with a common history fighting each other because they now practice their religions differently. But their battles are Jew vs Muslim or Muslim vs Orthodox Christian. You guys are Christian vs Christian. I just don't get it. I have met many Irish, both Catholic and Protestant, and they are all smart, decent people with a great sense of humour. You guys know better.

sparkeye: 2nd Apr 2006 - 03:01 GMT

the guy said it. Of course, everyone could all start cursing again. It makes for less reading.

reece anderson: 5th Apr 2006 - 21:40 GMT

BRIDGETON LOYALISTS FLUTE BAND NO#1 MON THE WOMBLES FUCK THE POPE

john malcolm: 10th Apr 2006 - 22:14 GMT

bridgeton loyalist flute band no1 uda uff uym blfb ftp mon the wombles

stouty boy: 11th Apr 2006 - 22:43 GMT

BRIDGETON LOYALIST FLUTE BAND NO1 UDA UFF UYM QS MON THE WOMBLES SANDY ROW HERE WE COME 2K6 STYLE

BIG GEORGE STUOT: 15th Apr 2006 - 00:57 GMT

carslberg dont make flute bands but if they did brigtin loyalist would be the best band in the world. qs. uff. B.L.F.B

taylor: 24th Apr 2006 - 02:09 GMT

sons of william cookstown really r the best band

Sean RC: 20th May 2006 - 16:30 GMT

Here editor whats the score mate why did has my comment been removed?
after reading what half these fools have been saying mine got removed mine was factual for fuck sake.
Even my comment on free derry about how the name is to be decided by the courts in the next couple of months a comment preceding that onther forum which you closed. Get a grip.

As for you peolpe we have outbred you.
That is all I dont have enough respect for you to comment further than.

Up the Ra'
God bless and happy retirement to the Provos!
CIRA March on.
INLA let us know your still about.
In honour of the hunger strikers (all)
May God rest you I hope you are happy.
erin gauh Braugh

Grange: 20th May 2006 - 20:14 GMT

geshhhhhhhhh , fighting among the irish , some times I think the worlds gone nuts . Maybe ya should just get it over with ,then the scots can have a go settling the land..lol.. Oh and just so you know , frigging big brother watch's every thing , internet , phones , etc . So make sure ya dont end up on some plane with dark windows heading for sunny cuba . GIT's

C.D. MORRIS...ALABAMA,U.S.A.: 22nd May 2006 - 02:26 GMT

I BELIEVE IF I WERE IRISH...I WOULD WANT MY OWN COUNTRY. THE NORTHERN YANKESS WANTED TO IMPOSE THEIR WILL ON OUR SOUTHERN STATES...AND WEE FOUGHT BACK.WE WANTED OUR SOVEREIGNTY...OUR OWN COUNTRY...CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA,TO LIVE THE WAY WE WANTED TO!!! CANT BLAMES ANYONE FOR THAT!!

Peter: 22nd May 2006 - 02:30 GMT

...but you can blame your alabama education for your atroctious grammar, im sure. chalk one more up for the south!

lex B.L.F.B: 26th May 2006 - 13:22 GMT

great website keep up the good work. UDA UFF look out for us on the twelve Q.S.

anon (belf-cache-1.server.ntli.net): 8th Jun 2006 - 07:54 GMT

A Belfast man called Karlo: 12th Apr 2006 - 00:37 GMT
i feel i must say something to at least let people know there are those of us that live in Belfast who DO posess a bit of wit,understanding and compassion..it really is quite sad to read such things like that last one,how can anyone be happy with their lives whilst exsisting in such a frame of mind? i could easily say such things to anyone,it doesnt really take much to degrade others.im sure this person (airborne) and the many others that have contributed to this site in the same vain feel they are winning some kind of phsycological game with every entry,the sad thing being of course is that they lose a part of their own dignity by showing people,particulary those that reside outside of ireland/northern ireland,how in many ways,it seems as though we have cornered the market on hatred,bigotry,arrogance,ignorance,stubborness,and every other facet of negativety,all of which of course,can be summed up with one word-fear...fear is a powerful emotion and has the ability to not only cloud your judgement on the world around you,but can also destoy any potential one might posess to live a happy and meaningful life.it is true to say that EVERYWHERE in this world,we are rapidly losing our ability to communicate with eachother as the human beings we so often aspire to be.when you lash out at others,and blame them for everything that is wrong with your life,then you are ignoring where those problems ultimately reside..in your own mind.i am not foolish enough to ignore the reality of the conflict in ireland,or indeed,this planet,i too have suffered,3 of my family members and 1 of my friends where murdered as a direct result of this war,but i,like so many others,have lost loved ones to what can only be described as the 'side effects' of this conflict,namely suicide,and in a less dramatic sense,a witness to the mental deterrioration of the people around me..i so completely feel there has to be a concerted effort to reverse all of this by everyone-EVERYWHERE..fear is our number one enemy and fear resides in us ALL,in one form or another.we must endevour to understand ourselves,as people,as humans,as a species,and as posessers of THE most amazing piece of biological machinery..our minds..we know NOTHING about the true capabilities that resides between our ears,it is practically staring us in the face! there are those of us who wish to defeat others,and they are many,but there are those of us,who make up the true majority,who wish only to live their lives in peace surrounded by those who we love,and who love us.of course,we live in a world that is dominated by war and a desire for power,but war is the cause of the few,who most of us will never meet,but sadly will always live with their effect..the biggest irony,is that for such the seemingly intellegent lot that we think we are,we allow ourselves to be controlled by a very small number of people,who are completely aware of how fragile and easily influenced our minds can be..we presume that we can do nothing about this.there are so many people who wish to change our global state of affairs by protesting and boycotting,joining political parties or revoloutionary groups.in certain countries and quarters,these approaches have had at least some measure of success,oppressive governments removed,dictators deposed,and armies defeated..complete success however,has,and will remain elusive because we,as humans, are ignoring a much more fundemental element..an element that applies also to those who just try to get along with their lives..this being an endevourment to fully and properly understand ourselves AS A SPEICES..beginning with our very own minds,small steps make giant leaps,we have been programmned from birth on how we should behave as acceptable human beings,if this happens,you must feel this way,if that happens,you must feel that way,this offends you,that doesnt,he's wrong,your right,even,when you think about it,to be brought up as boy and girl,she wears pink,he wears blue,she washes the dishes(sadly there are still too many cases)he goes out to work..as daft as this all might seem,the fact that we all buy into SO MUCH CRAP,completely incapacitates our very real ability to think for ourselves..we are so obsessed with what seperates us ( i.e race,religion,money) that we miss the very thing that unites us..our humanity,if you think that the world cant be changed,try looking in the mirror,if you start right there,then the world will change around you..i live in hope that someday,we will all get to take a collective sigh of relief,and ask ourselves,'how did we ever let that all happen'..the state of this world is the cause of those who wish to dominate,and we let them do it in such a way that they are rubbing their hands with glee..the first and most important battle is with our own conscience,how can we help others if we cant help ourselves? i have no desire to live my life in frustration..please, for gods sake,for our sake, WAKE UP!!!!

neil da numma 1 proddy: 15th Jun 2006 - 15:47 GMT

no surrender 2 the southern uninted we stand divided we fall fight republicicsm scum bags

davie: 20th Jun 2006 - 09:44 GMT

visited the shankill many times during the marching season and outwith it met a lot of nice people and as far as the tourist route is concerned you havent visited belfast until you ve been up the shankill road where your made more than welcome in its many pubs and clubs

Catriona: 23rd Jun 2006 - 14:55 GMT

I am a catholic and have been made more than welcome in the Shankhill.

stuart rodger aka ging or gingo: 4th Jul 2006 - 00:00 GMT

i am in b/macash uym d batt till i die 6 knockdara park lisburn my best m8 is stevie wilson aka monkey i luv womble n gettin bottles stuck my arse n luv taken shits in allys womble 4eva n alwayz ft low road junkies and tompy!!!

ZooPaul: 14th Jul 2006 - 03:06 GMT

Right on Anon

The only rational response to conflict is the restoration of harmony.

I was born in Canada of Catholic parents from the Republic of Ireland, and came to Ireland when I was 4. I remember going to school and telling my teachers I was Canadian, only to have my teacher laugh and explain that I was Irish. At the time this felt like a big shock... why couldn't I be Canadian? And why should I have this "Irishness" forced down my throat (it really did feel that way at the time).

Eventually I came to understand and even love the Irish aspect of my identity, but my love is not uncritical. If you love yourself, you should seek to self-improvement, recognise problems where they exist and try and remedy them.

So it is with Ireland. I love Ireland, but I cannot understand people who wave flags, beat their chest, rant on and on about past victories and injustices and denigrate "the other" as a way of displaying their misguided patriotism.

One criticism I have of my fellow countrymen is that most of us buy into a simplistic, nationalist view of Irish history. Everything is reduced down to "us" versus "the brits". Any bigger picture view of the movements of peoples, the displacement of one people over another, interbreeding, new cultures being born through cross cultural exchange, volutary religious conversion across these Islands is just too messy for us to comprehend. It's easier just to think of ourselves as some kind of homogonous Irish (or worse, Gaelic) "race" with a clear and identifyable enemy, namely "the Brits / Prods".

The "Irish" rarely attempt to come to terms with Unionist and Loyalist identities. It's much easier to believe them to be stooges of the English.

Until we begin to really try to understand the other side there will never be harmony on this Island.

The same goes for Loyalists. Raise yourselves up out of the idealogical ghetto you are languishing in. The only people who want you out or to take away your rights are an ignorant and powerless minority who don't realise the implications of what they are saying.

We have to share this sod and live in peace with our neighbours.
It's about time we all grew up.

Shamie: 1st Aug 2006 - 11:11 GMT

Ogra Shinn Fein, Up the Falls, Fuck the Shankill.

Tiocfaidh ar la.

Saiorse...The united Ireland is inevitable, you loyalists need to realise that!!

Jeff, Birmingham: 1st Aug 2006 - 11:20 GMT

I am not too educated on the troubles in Ireland but i would like to share with you some of my opinions.
Firstly i do not understand why the protestants love the queen when most people in england dont even like her. by liking the monachy i believe you are degrading yourself because you are basically saying they are better than you. i believe everyone is equal therefore someone shouldnt be idealised just because they are born into the royal family (which we all know is corrupt). Surely the money they cost us would be better if it went to a childrens charity instead!

Also i dont understand the twelfth. why celebrate sumthing that happened hundreds of years ago. havent you got anything more recent to be pround of??? its like the english marching through berlin every year to say we won the war. civilised people wouldnt do it.

I dont mean to sound like im just targeting the protesatants but this is just the opinion i have come up with. I myself am anglican and i dont understand how violent men in loyalist paramilitaries can call themselves christian. "for God and Ulster"...doyou really think God wants you to kill people?

Please give me some feedback.

Jeff, Birmingham: 21st Aug 2006 - 11:31 GMT

Unnecessary hatred raymo. Do you agree with the peace process or would you prefer the "troubles" to still be on? Because if everyone has an uncompromising attitude, there will never be peace in Ulster

karlo: 21st Aug 2006 - 20:05 GMT

Shamie,if you profess to be a Republican,then why ape the people you say are your enemies? 'Fuck the shankill' is not a part of the Republican agenda,yet people like yourself only serve to feed the paranoia that has been so deliberately fostered in the Loyalist mindset.
How can we have a united Ireland with attitudes like yours?We need to go far beyond such negativity if we are to stand any chance of achieving a lasting peace in this country.I know many people from the Shankill,and apart from the fact that i disagree with their politics,i can safely say i would regard them as good,hard working and kind hearted people.
Just like us

True Republicanism does not indulge in sectarianism.I grew up in a deeply Republican family,and never once did i hear from anyone of our family 'Fuck loyalism'.Loyalists are not our enemies,and i long for the day,however unrealistic,that Loyalists will realise that we are not their enemies.The huge irony for them is that we are the closest friends they have simply because we live with them,and in many ways,have shared their suffering.
Today,there is no-one on these islands that have this shared experience,so lets go beyond the rhetoric and keep the hand of friendship streched firmly out to our loyalist neighbours.
To some,this may seem idealistic in the extreme,but what else are we to do?
I am as aware as many of the realities of this conflict.
There is no denying the centrality of London in our war.Its role has been a shameful one,like its role in many countries around the world,and its current role in the middle east.
But the English cant be a part of a united Ireland simply because of proximity,but they do have a role in helping to create it,if the will is there.

My point is this,Shamie,in order to achieve our goals,we must first look in the mirror,and change the person looking back.Wisdom and compassion must be our weapons.
Guns,and abuse will simply,just not work.

peace

respect

Karlo

Alan: 22nd Aug 2006 - 13:51 GMT

Good post Karlo and a refreshing opinion. If we had more Republicans who spread this message we'd be in a much better place right now. A truely 'United' Ireland can only come about if there is respect and understanding in both communities for others on these islands.

Many people are not aware that it was in fact Protestants that brought about modern Republicanism. The likes of Wolfe Tone and Robert Emmet intended to "unite Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter". We must start with the basic respect for one another. Only then can we start to move forward.

Shamie: 22nd Aug 2006 - 23:11 GMT

Thanks for your post Karlo, I have taken it on board.
I do actually have a similar viewpoint as yourself and I do not agree with murder and sectarian violence. The reason I posted 'fuck the shankill' is because I came onto this site to see similar things being said about my community and people have idealised UDA, who in my eyes are no better than any other serial killers in history. My post was a reaction and I do admit it was the wrong reaction.

It annoys me the way republicans are picked on in the media. When McCartney was killed in Belfast it was all over the news and people simply said 'the IRA did it' when in reality it was a few morons who happened to be in the IRA. If Wayne Rooney did something you wouldnt say 'MUFC did it' So why blame a criminal act on an organisation who are trying to help the peace process.

When that guy was killed a few weeks ago in Tobermore by members of a loyalist paramilitary it barely made the papers. The media attack republicanism constantly and in my eyes it causes more of a rift between the 2 communities and makes republicans simpathise with exremism.

What has been the reaction of people you know to the recent attacks by dissident republicans in Newry etc?

barry: 23rd Aug 2006 - 01:34 GMT

Observer: 23rd Aug 2006 - 23:08 GMT

I was in belfast on the shankill. Some murals are Uda some are UVF. why? do they control different parts? do sum people support one and some support the other?

A Volunteer: 4th Sep 2006 - 00:24 GMT

Reading some of these comments makes me laugh. The PIRA gave up the struggle. AS you PROVOS know. Proper ones . Not foot soldiers. You joined up to unite Ireland and swore to remain an IRA volunteer until that that day happened unless evicted from RA. There will never be a unite Ireland. Thats a fact. The constitution says so, the majority of Ulster says so and thats the way it will remain. "Guns,and abuse will simply,just not work" - just a joke. The gun will ALLWAYS be mightier than the pen. Thats why Loyalists the world over are ready for peace yet prepared for war. If it happens, a war that will see executions and elimination on a scale far beyond the last 30 years. The outcome will be same. Look at the stats on killings last 30 years - PROVO v LOYALIST. Good luck to the UDA/UFF , I know them well. Feriens - Tego. They deserve great credit for playing their part in forcing the retreat and surrender of the republican war machine and its cancerous society. We salute you.
UVF 1st Batt. B Coy.

Karlo: 5th Sep 2006 - 08:11 GMT

Ok ok,now you ARE funny.
'Loyalists the world over'....
Oh,you mean your support groups such as Combat 18 (for those who dont know,C18 is a 100% Nazi organisation..18 stands for the 1st and 8th letters of the alphabet - A-H..representing the initials of that 'beloved' historical figure..Adolf Hitler)..Then you have that other proud supporter of social justice and fairness for all-Blood & Honour..ANOTHER Nazi organisation formed in East Germany in 1977..Let me see now,who else stands for the noble cause of 'world' Loyalism...the National Front,the KKK,the AWP,NSAWP,BNP...All of the above are extreme rightwing organisations who come from America,Britain,Germany and South Africa..the list goes on.
So, having stated that you have world wide support,you conveniently ommit the fact that any political,financial or military support you have recieved,apart from dear old blighty of course,just happens to come from extreme fascist organisations that pride themselves on their racist agendas and are renowned 'the world over' for their murderous and contemptuous ways.
But,hold on a second,does anyone else know anything about Where Loyalism comes from?
Now this may come as a surprise,but they are

wait for it

a part of

The lost Tribe of David

??

No,its true.
You know,Jews and all.

When Republicans began to erect flags in support of the Palestinian people,Loyalists,who are so highly educated and completely aware of their history (and are so noble in their acceptence as pawns for the English)began erecting Jewish flags in their areas,it seems,just to piss Republicans off.

Now,their Nazi bretheren across the water were infuriated by this turn of events,and threatened to pull all funding if the flags didn't come down,the next day,hey presto,the flags are gone.
But one wonders,did they not begin to question the sencerity of their 'northern' Irish partners in crime, to the 'cause'?

Confused?
Try being a Loyalist.
So volunteer,you see,we could go all day about this or that,but do you REALLY want peace?
True peace,not the 'peace' that your people enjoyed for 50 years of mis-rule.
Are you aware of how strong the Republican people are?
Loyalist Paramilitaries played a small part in our war with the English government.They used you to do their dirty work,and you KNOW they couldnt give 2 fucks about the Shankill or the Woodstock or anyother Loyalist area any more than they give a fuck about any Nationalist area.
It is WE who live together.
You will NOT win,
and neither will we.
We can all succeed in escaping our awful past and look to the future together.
Do you want that?
Seriously?

Observer: 5th Sep 2006 - 23:13 GMT

I'm from England Karlo and You are correct, people here do not care abput loyalism. We think it is stupid that they love the queen because most people in England don't like her. We see loyalists as tattooed scallies who cause trouble

Karlo: 7th Sep 2006 - 16:12 GMT

Well observer,i have to be honest and say they are not all tattooed thugs.
There are assholes and hardmen where-ever you go,but regrettably,the macho thug image certainly is synomonus with Loyalism.
There are however,huge efforts on the ground level being made by many former and current Loyalist paramilitaries to better their community and help steer young people away from crime and as strange as it may seem,away from paramilitarism.

Working class Loyalism has in many ways suffered,and still is suffering to a large degree simply because they are working class.
Their leaders have in most cases,used them when they needed some muscle,and led them up the garden path with regards to job security,belief that all their social problems are the cause of uppety Fenians (Republicans) so therefore if Republicanism is erradicated,all their problems are solved,and a deliberate fostering of a semi sub-conscious belief that they are superior to Nationalists.
This cannot be denied.
What this has led to is an almost desperate situation for many working class Loyalist communities that despite what some might percieve as the truth,bears no relation to the political and social advancement of Nationalism/Republicanism.
The difference with working class nationalists is this-We have suffered discrimination because of our religious beliefs and national identity,a much deeper and extremely personal reason don't you think?
My fear is,that there would be some in our community who would become the oppressers,which serves only to deepen the huge distrust within Loyalism toward Republicans.I for one would not tolerate this possible manifestation,and would work to counter any such actions.
Im not sure if any of this interests you,but our situation here is much more complex than the British media often portrays,but again,this is part of the agenda.

Karlo: 9th Sep 2006 - 09:57 GMT

Shamie
just to let you know,i have replied to your post twice and for some reason it has been deleted.
In answer to your question,I would like those who are carrying out attacks such as those in Newry to stop.
Now.
This stratagey is counter-productive and ultimately futile.The will of the people is firmly with the peace-process.
A peace process which is far from perfect.
In fact the implementation of the GFA has eluded us this much for one reason and one reason only..Unionisms unwillingness to even contenence powersharing with confident Taigs (Republicans) and its ill-concieved self perception of superiority over Nationalists.
So much effort has been made to undo the peace-process by Unionists that it cant be 'frustrating',but any sort of military action has no role in securing a united Ireland.
The days of the armalite and the ballotbox are gone.

A Volunteer: 9th Sep 2006 - 23:03 GMT

An Offer to Karlo : -

Stop hiding behing the sniper and bomb planting ?

Its SO YELLOW !!

If you want to take out people, then at least face them on before you execute them.

You know , as well as myself that the loyalists of ulster decided to fight terrorisom with EXTREME terrorisom. We prevailed. Anyone can plant a bomb and run away. Easy.
To confront your enemy in an eye to eye situation, in a war situation, and to eliminate them from society is completely different.

My offer to you is to meet you like Martini Bianco. " Anytime , Anyplace , Anywhere "
Forget turning places into Carparks !!
Thats all you were good at.
Sorry apart from kneecaping young boys who disobeyed you.

Easy behind the keyboard i know. But im not a regular poster on this site. I KNOW THE SCORE !!

Karlo: 11th Sep 2006 - 07:28 GMT

Whilst appreciating their reasons,I do feel it would be better if whoever was controlling this site didn't delete posts such as the one made by volunteer.
Although it was bitter in the extreme,and potentialy liable,what it did was show people the extent and true depth of utter hatred,ignorance,arrogance and fear that exsists within sections of the loyalist mindset.
Reading through the posts on this site up until now,there weren't any that exposed so thoroughly the sinister train of thought that epitomises 'Ulster' Loyalism.

I feel sorry for you volunteer. You have a warped sense of history and a complete lack of understanding of the progressive side of human nature.
In one sentence you say the war is over then in the next,you talk of 'executions on a scale never before seen' if there is a United Ireland.
?????
What planet are you living on?
Do you have children? Would you wish for them to grow up experiencing what we did? What would you teach them about compassion and understanding?
Do you have any idea what these words mean?
You need to ask yourself some serious questions about where you want to be in this world,what you want for your loved ones and how you can help those around you better their lives.Is it the massacre of all Republicans/Nationalists/Catholics? Hatred breeds hatred,and fear breeds fear.
What you propose wouldn't work.
It hasn't worked.
All it has done is to create a climate of fear and mistrust,followed by war and utter despair.
You will never defeat the Republican people.
WE can never defeat you.
This is our reality.What is also our reality is the fact that we must share this piece of land,as partners,as equals.
My heart tells me that all of this is an extreme longshot,but what else can i do in the face of such hatred?
You say you would like to meet me 'Martini Bianco' style..Im afraid that you would get a surprise that may not sit with you well,so i must decline,sorry,but im not gay.
But,i do offer a hug to those that need them,so maybe we could work something out?
Seriously though,instead of throwing insults,why not have a go at opening up a meaningful debate about the future of our shared home?
Why leave it to the leadership?
I know you said you never wanted peace,but it takes a real man to face his enemy (even if it is through a computer screen) and try to reach an accommodation.
Im not asking you to sell your beliefs down the river.Nor do i wish to belittle you,but we must try, for our kids at least,to sort this mess out.

A Volunteer: 13th Sep 2006 - 00:05 GMT

My Youngest was Killed on the Shankill by PIRA.

I appreciate your views and understand your intelligence. But you will NEVER convince me of your views.

I AM BITTER. Allways will be. For OBVIOUS reasons !!

My Hatred of Taigs will go with me to my grave. A Cemetry, not a hole in the ground like Milltown.
I WAS and STILL am A "BAD MAN".

"I know you said you never wanted peace,but it takes a real man to face his enemy (even if it is through a computer screen) and try to reach an accommodation."

I never needed computer screens , cos they were not there at that time.
We did what we did in belief and defence of our land against the enemies of our land.Our Britain.

But you must understand that PIRA gave up the ghost.

Karlo: 13th Sep 2006 - 01:51 GMT

Volunteer
Im not trying to convince you of my views,i am merely trying to reach an understanding with you as a human being.
If i were standing next to you,i would offer you my sincere condolences and sympathy for the loss of your youngest,even if it where at the hands of someone from my community.
I truly mean that.

But what is 'my' community?
People who live in my area.People who i walk past each day.People who i share a joke with,listen to when they need an ear,laugh at when they do something stupid,help when they need a hand,be it a pint of milk,a loaf of bread or simply someone to talk to..
Does this sound familiar to you? Does it sound like a part of your everyday life?
Could it be 'your' community also?

Behind all the bullshit that 'seperates' us,we have a lot more in common than some would have us believe.
If i were your next door nieghbour,i could be a friend..or even some person that you see everyday and spare a nod for when the mood suits.
Is it not that our respective situations are an outcome of an accident of birth?

I don't believe that this part of Ireland is British.
I want,in the truest sense of the word, a 'united' Ireland.
I do think that the idea of having a 32 county Socialist Republic is unatainable.
As much as it pains me to say this,the 'Republic' which so many of our brave men and women fought and died for,is unachieveable.

But you see,this is the direction in which Irish Republicanism is heading-and that is the reason why there has been the emergenge of the 'Real' IRA & the Continuity IRA.
Our goal of a united Ireland has metomorphisised into something which is sustainable-A unity of the PEOPLE of Ireland-north AND south.
Without guns
without coherecen

with respect
with dignity
with harmony
that includes Ulster Loyalists.
How else can it be?

Vounteer,the crux of it all is respect.
As a human being,as an individual,I would extend nothing but the greatest of respect to you.
Politically,I would disagree with you wholeheartedly.
But we must look at what the whole concept of what 'politics' amounts to.
It facilitates the differences that is inherent in human nature.As a species,we naturally disagree and look at the same problem through differing perspectives,that is,to see the same truth,but come up with different answers.
Ironic dont you think?
But one of our plus points is that we have the ability to solve our differences and forge a way that is beneficial to all.

Having said all this,there is an undenialbe truth..
You have lost loved ones.
So have I.

But what better way to serve their memory than to live as happy and as meaningful lives as possible.
If there is a heaven,and they are looking down on us,would they not want us to live our lives to the fullest?

Because of the nature of their deaths,is it not our duty as the men and women that we so often aspire to be, to make sure that NO-ONE has to suffer what we have?
Our family of 'Man' has been here for well over a million years,yet we still haven't figured it out yet.
THAT,is our ultimate tragedy.

I feel sad at the fact that you are bitter,but bitterness can only be self destructive,and nothing else.
When you walk around your local town or village,is it 'taigs' you are walking past,or people,
just like you?

Who like football,who love cars,who like a drink or 2,who have a pet dog or cat,who have loved ones,who cry,who laugh,who eat,shit and sleep,
just like you.

The only difference between us is concept,and perception.
Nothing else,save proximity.
And if proximity is a barrier,then we can start with ourselves.

We have NO OTHER CHOICE.

The only other choice we have,is fear and perpetual conflict.
I for one,do not want to live in a world where we cannot communicate on a level that is so basic in its approach and so utterly profound in its meaning and its ultimate outcome that it has to potential to lift us all from the CRAP that we have allowed ourselves to drown in.

Our conflict is not unique.
People,and the 'societies' in which they belong,have been killing eachother on a horrendous scale since the dawn of human history.
For what?
So that the few can control the many.
The sheep and the shepard.

Which one would you rather be?

It is because of our experience of conflict,and all the outcomes it brings,that we have the potential to stand up and show the world that it IS possible to wrench ourselves from this tragedy and to forge a new beginning,together,as equals,as partners,
as the human beings we so often aspire to be.

We have no other choice.

Respect.

Karlo.

EvilGentleman: 13th Sep 2006 - 15:28 GMT

Wow. Just wow. With all due respect, I have a better idea. Why don't you two emigrate to Canada and run for political office over here? Regardless of your opinions and whether or not I would agree with you, I could respect either one of you, and that is a lot more than what I can say for the idiots that have been running this country for the last 100 years or so. The dishonest and the foolish have brought us nothing but pain. It is time for the honest, intelligent people to step forward. Please do.

A Volunteer: 15th Sep 2006 - 01:55 GMT

And yes EG , people like David Ervine and John White did exactly that in bringing peace to Ulster. The latters crime obviously more severe than the former, stabbing Senator Paddy Wilson ( if i remember right ) over 30 times and opening him up ear to ear. Then brutally killing his Protestant wife.
Thats what it was like at that time. But that crime was quite severe even for then. You see thats what loyalists did because they were afraid of what was going on in their land. The belief was that if you did something like that then it would deter the IRA or at least make them think / consider their stategy . For a time anyway !!

Both later went to parliament to attempt to broker the peace deal and shook hands with TB. But when all was going well , shit hit the fan again. Tit for tat all over.
-----------------------------------------------
Karlo,

I will say that i will now post 2 more . Im tired of explaining.

The 1st one will be nothing of my own and just information / statitistics from various sources of the extent / damage / death / that loyalists caused in Ulster / republic. Obviously never on the mainland. Ulster alone. The 6 counties that remain and not the 9 that were there before the battle of the somme when england sold 3 away as the thanks for that great loss.

But im sure if you do the searches that you will know those stats anyway.
You're obviously an intelligent man.

The second will be my last on this site and then that will be enough.

if u want to respond to " our conflict is not unique " .

Please tell me your views on the conflict in the middle east. Because its like ours simply and utterly due to the length and depth of it. Though you could also say that about pakistan and india, but without the same continuous bloodshed over the time.

pete the para: 6th Oct 2006 - 18:14 GMT

hmmmmm strange it seems there are intellegent life forms here.....

naaa

maybe not

Ex-Fighter: 23rd Oct 2006 - 22:38 GMT

As an ex UDA freedom fighter,that done my time for my so called God and Ulster crime.Im broke living in a dingy flat,wife gone with the kids while i was inside.cant get a job.Who the F*** are these so called loyalist freedom fighters running about in their big cars,flashy houses,done sweet FA for Ulster except kill prods who appose them in their drug dealing.And SOUTH BELFAST UDA are the biggest culprits.ITS PATHETIC.
THE BIGGEST ENEMY TO ULSTER NOW IS THOSE THAT ARE PRETENDING TO DEFEND IT.

English teacher in Brasil: 24th Oct 2006 - 13:43 GMT

whatever I read on here is very interesting. I am doing Ireland at the moment with my year nine here in Brasil (Campinas in the state of São Paulo, a city about double the size of Belfast) as part of their English classes for what you would call GCSE. Of course I have to try to explain the situation in Northern Ireland to them. it is obviously not easy. Pity that your English is so bad on here and you make so many typing errors. But anyway, I will copy some of these comments here and let my students read them. they explain more then anything they get in their English textbooks.
thank you. sincerely I hope that you overcome your problems in your very beautiful and friendly country. i visited Belfast several times and thought it was seriously strange for such friendly people to treat each other so badly. but - you obviously know better. the very best of luck to you whatever your decision.

Ra: 21st May 2007 - 23:00 GMT

Face it u orange fucks, u ar aliens to the ilsand of ireland u wur planted like seeds by the brits to steal, murder and many other inhumane acts against the catholic irish.

anon (host81-155-204-5.range81-155.btcentralplus.com): 2nd Jun 2007 - 14:29 GMT

you know reading all these its such a pitty a beautiful country with many aspiring things has been so heavily destroyed by fighting buit thats the world over no place will ever be free or be united unless all the fighting is brought to a end..... but then with no fighting what life do the people who are doing the fighting have.....

shankill: 12th Jun 2007 - 20:03 GMT

Wouldnt live anywere else!! thers great shops and cafes and the people are the most friendly by far.
tourists walk freely all over the shankill and along the peace walls, signing their names and leaving messages of support and not a soul would approach them to even ask what they were doing. the wall murals are great, i mean, were else in the word would you see giant works of art painted on the sides of houses and buildings telling stories of victories in great battles such as the battle of the boyne in 1690 were King William 111 prince of orange defeated king james, or the closing of the gates of Londonderry by a young apprentice, to protect the city. some people may have different feelings about what the paintings depict but they show the history of northern ireland.
The Shankill road it too strong to fall appart over negative comments like those made by people trying to damage the reputation of this great road. The Protestant Faith will aways remain dominant in this wee country we call home.
And the Shankill, it will always remain the protestant heartland!!

shankill: 12th Jun 2007 - 20:05 GMT

The Shankill road it too strong to fall appart over negative comments like those made by people trying to damage the reputation of this great road. The Protestant Faith will aways remain dominant in this wee country we call home.
And the Shankill, it will always remain the protestant heartland!!

ryan: 26th Jun 2007 - 18:46 GMT

to all shankill residents, be pround, show pride, never surrender, from an english friend, you will always be seen and accepted as family, keep a hold of what is rightfuly yours

loyalist: 8th Jul 2007 - 23:30 GMT

be real lads, it's over, and can any one of you honestly say, with hand on heart that you're not glad it is.

karlo: 13th Jul 2007 - 16:04 GMT

I wholeheartedly agree mate
Its over

and thank fuck for that

now,whats this about a shared future?........

Tommy 164: 24th Jul 2007 - 00:45 GMT

Just been over to the shankhill..amazing, first time over loved every minute of it and the people. protestant forever and ever. Looking forward to next year

Phil: 30th Oct 2007 - 13:41 GMT

I'm a Catholic ,I Live in America . I have family on the falls. Im married to a protestant. My family doesn't case we are Christians.I believe be proud of your herritage weather you support a united Ireland like I do . Or QE II.But we can get along I dont teach my sons to hate based on faith.. God bless

Mark UTH's Loyalist Carnmoney: 24th Nov 2007 - 19:07 GMT

fuck all fenians and fuck a pope 2

MArk again : 24th Nov 2007 - 19:11 GMT

Fuck u barry ur a faggot m8 come up my fuckin house and call me and orange bastard Queens PArk mucker

Fuzzball: 25th Jan 2008 - 21:42 GMT

re: phil (yank) 30 oct 2007. bow to our queen you stupid cock. if you want a United Ireland then try and take our bit off us you two faced bitch. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN

King Billy: 16th Feb 2008 - 00:04 GMT

We didn't do very well in IRELAND there are still far too many of you fenian Pope loving bastards living and breathing. Fuck your pope and the IRA. NO SURRENDER.

karlo: 22nd Feb 2008 - 09:36 GMT

Very progressive comments King Billy. I suppose you think you are speaking on behalf 'true' Loyalism? Does this train of thought epitomise the Loyalist mindset? If so,they have my pity.

sharon, swansea: 30th May 2008 - 09:57 GMT

hi could i explain why i`m posting this please,
I LOST MY 19 YR OLD SON KARL,( AKA KARLO...) TO METHADONE MISUSE, IN OCT 2007,
AN ABSOLUTE WASTE OF A LIFE, HE WAS A GOOD KID, HANDSOME , KIND, GENEROUS, LOVED DOING WHAT MOST BOYS HIS AGE DO..
THE FIRST TIME HE TOOK METH, IT KILLED HIM, BUT IT WAS GIVEN TO HIM BY A MEMBER OF HIS FAMILY, A AUNT..
SO PERHAPS YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE BITTERNESS AND HATRED I FEEL TOWARDS THIS PERSON WHO TOOK MY SON,
WELL ANYWAY, I WANTED REVENGE, LIKE NO OTHER, TO ME THIS PERSON AS GOT TO SUFFER LIKE I AM, FEEL THE HURT ETC.. AND I HAVE TO SAY, IT`S BEEN EATING AWAY AT ME SINCE KARL DIED, ALL I THINK ABOUT IS HURTING THE PERSON WHO HELPED TAKE HIS LIFE...

BUT LAST NITE, I HAD A DREAM, ABOUT A PLACE CALLED... SHANKHILL, I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF IT BEFORE,

IT WAS SO VIVID, IN MY DREAM IT WAS AN HOUSING ESTATE, MUCH LIKE THE ONE I`M LIVING ON, TOWNHILL..
IN SWANSEA WALES........

THIS DREAM PLAYED ON MY MIND SO MUCH, THAT WHEN I WOKE THIS MORNING, I TURNED ON MY PC, AND GOOGLED THE NAME SHANKHILL... AND I ENEDED UP ON THIS SITE, I READ A FEW COMMENTS, NOTHING TOOK ME, THEN WHO`S NAME POPS UP KARLO..

SO I READ WITH MUCH INTREST THE POSTS BY, KARLO AND VOLUNTEER.. I KNOW REALISE THAT IT`S NOT REVENGE MY SON WANTS ME TO HAVE, IT`S TO LIVE THE REST OF MY LIFE, TO THE FULLEST, IT WAS OBVIOUSLY A MESSAGE OF SOME SORT, FROM KARL,

HE COULD SEE HOW MUCH IT WAS, EATING AWAY AT ME, AND HE DOES`NT WANT THAT,

SO THANK YOU KARLO AND VOLUNTEER FOR YOUR POSTS, THEY AV HELPED ME SEE THINGS MORE CLEARLY, AND TO REMEMBER ALL THE GOOD TIMES I HAD WITH MY SON, COZ I NOW KNOW THAT HE`LL BE LOOKING OVER MYSELF AND MY FAMILY, UNTIL WE ALL MEET AGAIN... XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Jamie: 30th May 2008 - 12:41 GMT

Sharon, that's a very moving story, albeit entirely written in CAPITAL LETTERS, but quite possibly one of the most thought provoking comments ever to appear on this site

also:

lol@ebay

sharon, swansea: 31st May 2008 - 09:30 GMT

hi jamie, thanx for your reply,

i did`nt expect a response, i `m just grateful i found this site,
i wish you all the best in your life
xxx

Karlo: 17th Jun 2008 - 13:57 GMT

That really was a moving story sharon.
Im so glad that you can finally put your anger to rest,a feeling that only serves to destroy the self.
I fully believe that your son Karl would want you to live your life as a tribute to his.Smile at the thought of his face,laugh and cry when you remember the good times.
He will never leave your side.

My son lost his mother to this conflict at the age of seven.
Her name was Eileen.
Not long after her death,he was feeling sad one day,and i asked him what was the matter.
"I miss Eileen" (He never called her mummy)
I asked him did he think she was in heaven looking down on us,and he replied "yes".
"Well son,if she is looking down on you right now,would she want you to feel sad? Or happy?"
"Happy Karlo" (He has never called me daddy)
My exact words were...
"Thats right son.Be happy.
Its ok for you to cry,because we all miss her,but the best thing you can do now kid,is to live the rest of your life as happy as you can be-Things are never that bad.
Eileen would want you to always treat people with respect,understand that they are no different from you and always respect them as a human being.
Live your life with dignity,for that is how your mother was.If you can do that,then Eileen's death will be not in vain.
Do you understand son?"

"Yes"

Since that day,my son has never looked back.
He is making her and me,proud.

For my part,her death actually helped me to be a better person.
I no longer worried about trivial things.
She gave me a purpose and motivation.

This is the message I always try to convey to those who lost a loved one.
I fully believe it is the only way to serve their memory the way it should be.

I wish you all the love and best for the future,Sharon.
Maybe i'll see you on the other side,having a good old laugh with Karl and Eileen by our sides.

Peace.

:-)

x

A Free Mind: 23rd Jun 2008 - 15:19 GMT

Sharon, thats a touching story, i felt the hairs on my neck stand up. The thing is as Karlo said, What life would ur son want you 2 live after his death? (not as you have been living it, beating urself up about how he died). Most teens try drugs of all kinds but your son died trying it and the most hurt is that it was someone close 2 you who give him it. Be happy for him, thats why Northern Ireland is so messed up, people on both sides are looking 2 get ther own back for 1 reason or another. But peoples minds have changed form a mind set of hurting and cos'n people pain 2 living side-by-side. As you know from ur son dieing that you always get a few bad grapes in a bunch .ie.his Aunt You will always rember but never forget. But life go's on thers 2 much hurt in this world 2 go around hurting (or) think about hurting more ppl

sharon, swansea: 27th Jun 2008 - 10:21 GMT

hi to all
thanks for the lovley comments,
like i said, it was karl`s way of getting the message through, it was a very vivid dream,
i`ve always been a sceptic, when it comes to life after death, but when my lovley boy passed away, i wanted so much to believe, and then there was the dream of shankhill...
i must say, i have found it a lot easier to cope, i no longer, beat myself up over things that could of been..

like you said karlo, part of my sons death has made me a better person, lifes lessons so speak,

it not about hating or being angry, because life is just to short, i understand that now...

i am proud to have had karl has my son, even if it was just for a short time, (bless him)

he give me a lifetime of love and memories, which i`ll treasure, untill my time has come to join him

like he always used to say when he was alive, i`ll never leave you mam, we`re always a team

so go fly my handsome boy, you are always in my heart

my love and best wishes to all on this site
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

sharon, swansea: 27th Jun 2008 - 10:28 GMT

this is me and my lovley boy karl :)
xxx