Barren Island

jack: 3rd Aug 2007 - 15:05 GMT

too dirty and trashy, i was there many years ago when it was an ok place to run around, floyd bennett had air shows that were spectacular, the beaches were clean, breezy point was nice and clean and the water was not yet pollutted, time changes everything, people have to believe they want change and must take responsibility and clean up their act.

jack: 3rd Aug 2007 - 15:07 GMT

good pic's cart. nice to see that area again. thanks, perhaps we will run into each other taking pictures and we will know by our cameras or the big letters on my tee shirt that say's, "smile, your on citinoise".

CartLegger: 3rd Aug 2007 - 15:32 GMT

great idea Jack! A CityNoise T-shirt. I love it.

kayak girl: 3rd Aug 2007 - 19:15 GMT

Barren Island is the coolest. At the height of the rendering plants' days they had their own schools, hospitals, etc. It was a real community and had a majority of African American citizens. Some of the other islands in Jamaica Bay were also habitated. Ruffle Bar, for instance, had hotels, Oystering companies as well as some houses - the children that lived there had to row to the Rockaways for school. That island is also very good for finding remants from the past. I have found intact clay pipes and lots and lots of bottles. I reach the island by kayak, out of the Sebago Canoe Club in Canarsie, we're on Paerdegat Basin. Look us up: www.sebagocanoeclub.org. Cheers!

CartLegger: 3rd Aug 2007 - 21:46 GMT

here's some more historical background, compliment's of PBS POV program--the Spambot won't let me attach a link, so read below:

Barren Island, which appears on few modern maps, holds a special place in the city's garbage history. In the late 1850s, the first of many factories opened on this previously uninhabited island and began turning menhaden, an oily herring-like fish caught in local waters, into fertilizer

Scheming city politicians soon arranged to send household garbage this way, too. In the busy season, laborers unloaded seven or eight scows -- large, flat-bottomed boats with square ends -- a day, a total of 3,000 tons of refuse from Manhattan, Brooklyn and the Bronx, in addition to the daily horse boat, which held as many as fifty dead horses, plus cows, cats, dogs and pigs. Workers picked through the garbage for valuables, then boiled or steamed the rest in fifteen-foot-high steel cylinders

By 1860, writes Benjamin Miller in Fat of the Land, the island had "the largest concentration of offal industries in the world," producing 50,000 tons of oils, and tens of thousands of tons of grease, fertilizer and other products (bone black, hides, iron and tin) worth more than $10 million a year.

Politics and economics closed manufacturing plants through the 1920s, and by 1935 the single remaining factory on Barren Island was dismantled.

In 1936, the city planner Robert Moses evicted the last residents of Barren Island in order to build his Marine Park Bridge, which brought motorists over the Bay to the Rockaway Peninsula

BelRoC: 3rd Aug 2007 - 22:30 GMT

I never knew about this.
Sounds like my kind of place.
Thanx!!

colavitos ghost: 3rd Aug 2007 - 23:57 GMT

jack: you say this beach is "too dirty and too trashy"...

do you believe you want change? if so, go clean up this beach!

in related news, all cleveland area readers: this sunday i'm organizing a beach sweep at the old perkins beach (to the west of edgewater). anyone who believes they want change is welcome to come help clean up! just email me at acn222@gmail.com for details.

steve di pierdomenico: 7th Aug 2007 - 22:03 GMT

I arrived at Barren Island in 1929 as a 5 yr old. In the late "30rs,as a teen.I would screen the old dumps, and many summers dig up a coffee can of gold--from baby rings to chains which we sold. Commish. Moses moved us all out of there in about 1939 to make room for Floyd Bennet NAS.

CartLegger: 8th Aug 2007 - 12:00 GMT

Thanks so much for writing. I did not know I was joining in a local tradition. Too bad I did not find any gold!

But there is still so much else there to be found, and not just in the sands, but in the folks who dug there. If you have any other memories, please consider sharing them here.

steve : 10th Aug 2007 - 00:24 GMT

Cartlegger; I'll try to be brief with some details. Please don't hold me to the exact dates because I am going back from memory and not researching. Barren Island as we knew it was bordered by the south boundary of Floyd Bennett Field and east of Flatbush Avenue. Halfway between the airport fence and the ferry slip(before the Marine Parkway Bridge) there was a road about a mile long that went from Flatbush Avenue east to Jamaica Bay. That was called Main Street. It must have been the only Main Street in Brooklyn because we received our mail as Main Street, Brooklyn. Prior to 1936 there were many families who lived on Barren Island. You said that the city planner, Robert Moses, moved the people out of Barren Island. What he did was move only half of them out. We lived at 49 Main Street which was about the eviction line, and we moved farther east to #3 Main Street. So between 1936 and 1939 there were about 30 families still on Barren Island. Our school --P.S.120 (I remember 2 teachers, the principal, Miss Shaw, and another teacher named Miss Contillo) -- was torn down in or about 1936 when the west half of the island was evicted. Our church was left and used by the remaining people. After P.S. 120 was torn down we had to walk to Flatbush Ave to catch the bus that took us to P.S. 207 or 208. At that time, about 1936 they also tore down the remaining "horse" factory that was near the ferry slip. The "garbage" factory (that received hotel garbage from NYC)was closed down right before the expansion of Floyd Bennett Field, about 1929. This garbage from the city hotels was rendered to recover the oils and fats. In the garbage there was much silverware and other refuse from the hotels which included many coins and good jewelry. Most silverware and larger items were picked out by the workers on its way to the rendering. Many coins and jewelry went thru the rendering process and then were dumped out in an area called the "dumps". It was in this area, as a teenager, I would screen the dirt for "valuables." From Indianhead pennies, to gold pieces and even diamond pins. When reading the comments from others, I sense that we are talking about 2 different garbage "dumps." After the oil factory shut down in the late 20's, Barren Island was very, very clean. No garbage sites! So the garbage that is talked about along the beaches has to be manmade in the past few years! If you have any specific questions, I will try to answer them.

CartLegger: 11th Aug 2007 - 05:44 GMT

STeve: I think this makes sense. As I have heard people refer to BI as a dump in the 30s-50s. I wrongly assumed this was a continuity from an earlier time, but I see I am wrong. Thanks for illuminating my misunderstanding, and letting me know that we are bigger slobs than I suspected!

viola grand-daughter of carl willis: 4th Sep 2007 - 03:19 GMT

Steve:
My sisters and I are trying to find the burial site of our great-grandfather, Smith Foster. It is rumored that Miss Shaw (P.S. 120) gave permission for him to be buried in her plot. We are trying to find out where she died and where she is buried. We have reached so many dead ends...can you help us? Please email me directly ay vmor@aol.com and please cc my sister Vicki at lucky13duo@yahoo.com. If anyone reading this blog has any information to help us we would appreciate your information. Thanks!

Flo Lindstrom: 4th Jan 2008 - 23:52 GMT

my mother was born in 1912 and raised on Barren Island. I'm 68 yrs old and my earliest memory is of a being attacked by a "giant" chicken. In retrospect, since I was only 2 yrs old, guess the chicken was normal size. From what I can remember being told, when the island was turned into Floyd Bennet Field, all existing graves were exhumed and moved. My mother had a brother buried there.

Barbara Schneider: 2nd Feb 2008 - 11:09 GMT

My Grandparents had the first store on Barron Island the Hilinski General store and butcher shop. in the early 1900's. I have and old picture of it, but I have heard there is a picture of it in a book about Barron Island I want to find the book. All of my family settle on Barren Island, The Hilinski, The Schneider's & The Gunyans. My other grandfather was a captin of his own tug boat. If any one has any information on this please leave a msg. thanks

Ronald V. Regan, Sr.: 12th Feb 2008 - 22:12 GMT

My mother (Paula/Polla) Zelius (married nams Regan) was born on BArren Island in 1906. HEr mother was Genevive, and dad was Vincente' Zelius.
There were a total of five children in the Zelius family. By age they was Benjiman (Benny)... a real fisherman and newspaper figure and great stripped Bass sportsman, those many years ago. When he died, the Long Island Daily Press wrote a nice article on him. Then there was Josie, More on her later... then Polla (my Mother) who ran away from home at age 14 as a baby-sitter for a U.S. Navy Lieutenant and his wife and three siblings. Mom traveled on U.S. Navy ships from Brooklyn, Philedelphia, to Hawaii... Later to unmapped ___ Island. When she returned some 4 years later, she was always asked about her journey. Even her Dad and Mom forgave her unsolicited travels.
The remainder of the siblings consisted of sister Bertha, and Vincente' Jr. (known as Willie to everyone).

There is so much and I fail to read any good info on Barren Islanders. Your recent group had a few neat and informative pieces of information on the fish/horse rendering business (Pew !) But the Zelius clan loved the life there until they were told to move !

Thanks

Ronald V. Regan (Old Glendale, L.I. boy)

(oldsarge.1@netzero.com)

Linda Larson Brooks: 19th Feb 2008 - 04:34 GMT

I grew up in Flatlands Bay. Some of the people from Barren Island moved to the bay. Schnieder sounds familiar. I know the Lissenden's moved there too. My uncle Bud Ackermann delivered groceries from Rolston's on Flatbush Av. to the island. The whole area is no longer, thanks to Robert Moses!!!

Lorraine whitford: 26th Feb 2008 - 00:23 GMT

My grandfather grew up on barren Island. My grandmother worked at her aunts candy store during the summers.My graet grandmother bought the jailhouse on Barron Island and moved it to bergen beach. I grew up in that old jail house. I would love to find pictures of life on BI back in the day!

Michael Aronne: 16th May 2008 - 15:31 GMT

I grew up at Barren Island Marina in the early 1980's thru late 2000 and still go back. I grew up sein netting and combing those beaches from the one bridge the belt Pkwy goes over to the Marine pkwy bridge. I believe there is stuff that gets washed out in that whole area. We used to find old dishes and ll kinds of trash there when I was 12. Even an old marble once. We used to smash the dishes over the oyster shell beds on the beach at low tide. Who knew they were old. Probably china dishes. They were all patterned. Live and learn I guess.

Barbara Schneider: 21st May 2008 - 10:20 GMT

I just visited my Great Aunt Veronica Hilinski Maiden name (Zawatzki) Nick name (Fanny) She was lived on Barren Isand before she married, she is now 93 she said that her house was the first house to burn down on Barren Isalnd, She was at the Cathlic church at the time.She said that she remembers the horse factory and that it smelled bad. I think her father was hust or killed in that fire. If anyone has any infor please leave MSG. thanks

steve : 22nd May 2008 - 22:24 GMT

To Linda Larson----Joan Lissenden was my age and schoolmate at P.S.120 on Barren Island. She passed away about the start of WW2. I remember her as a very nice girl who was left-handed

Vincent Luisi: 5th Jul 2008 - 11:47 GMT

I guess we as consumers consume to much. It has to go somewhere and the Barren Islands of this world are there for the dumping. I for one will try to consume a lot less.

Rareity: 21st Jul 2008 - 20:21 GMT

I live in Marine Park- not too far from what was Barren Island. I'm 25 now but years back a friend and I stumbled upon a reference to Barren Island and had to go down to grand army plaza to find out any further info. Since then I've been hooked. I see more information is slowing coming to light, and I think it's great those who had first hand experience with BI shared their knowledge. I would like that to continue- especially in the wikipedia article devoted to Barren Island- so we never lose the experiences of those there and everyone can share them.

jan: 28th Sep 2008 - 20:37 GMT

My grandparents (Rankin) and my Mom later (Raney) lived on Barren Island for a lot of years-they brought their houses by boat to "Bergan Beach" to continue living, They had to leave because of Floyd Bennet Field. I have heard many stories expecially about the mosquitos that were like horse flies! If anyone recognizes my family, I'd love to "talk with you". Thanks!!! :-)

Linda Larson May 29, 2009: 30th May 2009 - 03:08 GMT

To Steve,
The Lissenden family lived up the street from us on Kimball St., in Flatlands Bay. They were wonderful people. The baby Betty is the only one left and I haven't seen her in years. She looked very much like Joan and was still beautiful when I last saw her. Joan passed away in about 1950 at age 24.

SanZay: 11th Jun 2009 - 02:48 GMT

Thingy similar to the one in the aforementioned image

is rusting somewhere between the bicycle lane and Plum Beach not far from scenic view on Belt Parkway. What it might be? Steam punk submarine? Wooden spaceship?

Sanzay: 11th Jun 2009 - 03:52 GMT

kayak girl, is this you on the following picture? Or someone you know?

Originally from "Plum Beach"
She is from Sebago Canoe Club too.

Joan Mason: 29th Jul 2009 - 21:57 GMT

To Linda and Steve -

I believe the Joan Lissenden you speak of is my grandmother. I was lightly researching to find any information about her as she passed away when my mother was only 2. She was 25. I would love any memories you have of her. It made me cry to read your comments as it made me feel such a connection... to hear of someone who actually knew her. Thanks!

Mcgee: 23rd Aug 2009 - 11:14 GMT

It's true that all cities and towns create trash/pollution to one degree or another. A certain amount is inevitable. And each era has its own particular concerns regarding what's actually garbage and what is not; based on a host of different reasons too numerous to go into here. New York City in general has gone from one of the more 'polluting' cities on the planet to one of the 'cleanest' run in the entire western hemisphere (obviously we are not done yet). No doubt this amazing transformation took a lot of hard work, ingenuity; etc., and many different mindsets were and are involved with its continued progress. The small group of volunteers I work with salvage what we can in our spare time from building/property renovations and assorted development projects around the city and elsewhere. I was particulary struck by the person who wrote in and mentioned sifting through the old trash dumps during the summer while growing up on Barren Island back in the day. What a time that must have been when some of the old buildings were still around and no doubt many stories were being told regarding the origin of the various 'dumps', and 'smells' too. Though most of the trash washing out along the beach near Barren Island today was deposited in the 1940s and 50s (occasionally mixed in with older things), and the old smells are pretty much long gone, many people I run into have had their first encounter with 'old' bottles, etc., in this magnetic spot. My specialty is antique bottles from about 1840-1910, and the related artifacts I come across on my historical salvage digs in old privies and dumps for the past two decades but I still make several trips each season to BI. Old bottles in general are one of the most collected small antiques in the world and we humans have been picking them up (in one manner or another) and admiring their shapes, colors, etc., for literally thousands of years. The thrill of discovery and an ongoing sense of adventure are what help keep us sufficiently motivated and mobilized during our hectic lives. Old timey places like Dead Horse Bay and Barren Island may have been renovated many decades ago to make way for 'progress' but the assorted artifacts and remarkable personal accounts of life there still surface from time to time. In some cases the 'progress' of today, in a frenzy to over sanitize, rebury, or perhaps over enthusiastically attempt to make up for past mistakes, can haplessly wipe out any residue of the day to day history of a place. For a century and a half the beaches there may not have been the prettiest or cleanest but the soul of the place is still as captivating as ever. Along with the small handfuls of various seekers showing up each weekend, with any luck the distinct jingle one encounters as the small tidal waves ceaselessly roll over the bottles and shards scattered all along bottle beach...will be heard for decades to come, unhindered by progress.

Mcgee: 23rd Aug 2009 - 11:48 GMT

Walking Bottle Beach Spring 2009

Marbles circa 1930-50, with an 1890-1910 "bennie" back center.

toby

dan mcgee -- oorga_ny@yahoo.com

Linda Larson Brooks: 10th Sep 2009 - 22:50 GMT

To Joan Mason,
Where did you grow up? What was your mothers' brothers' name. And what was your mothers' maiden name? I may have information for you. Have you been in contact with your aunt? Please let me know. I have not seen her for many years.
The Joan Lissenden I knew as a little girl was very, very pretty. She had dark hair and I think her eyes were dark too. Her mother and sister had dark eyes and hair. She married a local boy and they moved away. It would be nice if this is part of your family. I will check the site again in the near future. I don't always do so but I will look for your message.
Linda

anon (adsl-217-64-240.asm.bellsouth.net): 22nd Sep 2009 - 02:40 GMT

Hi Linda -

Thank you so much for responding. For so long I've been eager for a connection to my grandmother and who she was as a child and in her younger years. I grew up in Cornwall, NY. My grandmother Joan Lissenden Cavalari married John Cavalari and moved to New Windsor, NY a town next to Cornwall. She had two children: My mother Diane and my Uncle John. She then passed away when my mother was only 2 years old at the age of 25 or 26. Thank you so much for the information that you shared about my grandmother. I love to look her pictures. She was beautiful and my mother is just as beautiful. If you don't mind it would be great if we could exchange emails. My email is jmason7169@bellsouth.net.

Best,
Joan