Urban Street Propoganda

Jamie: 13th Apr 2002 - 22:33 GMT

I'd never even thought of posting these. They seem... normal to me. Everyday scenes. That's pretty fucked up right?

Nadia: 14th Apr 2002 - 20:08 GMT

Woah... and I was considering going to Ireland this summer :S I guess being close to the border must really be an eye opener.

Jamie: 14th Apr 2002 - 21:29 GMT

Dude don't come to Ireland. The Irish are the biggest bunch of racists you'll ever meet.

Nadia : 14th Apr 2002 - 22:17 GMT

I've been to Belfast to visit a cousin of mine there, but your pictures look scarey... don't think I like it... :(

Gene from Canada: 30th Oct 2004 - 01:38 GMT

I will have to agree. These are some intense images.Keep up the good work.

Belfast exile : 20th Mar 2005 - 00:50 GMT

Re: Urban Street Propoganda what a load of crap Belfast is the most Beautiful & friendliest city in the whole world It seems that the only people in this page are Irish/anti British arseholes.Why is it they come over the border for messages,fuel etc In truth all Taigs in Ulster still want our British money !!!!!!!!

jamie: 20th Mar 2005 - 00:55 GMT

um.. i lived near the border of fermanagh for a while (in the north), and forgive me if i'm wrong but people from NI generally go across the border into the republic to buy fuel as it is WAY cheaper. Not the reverse.

kilfennanDavy: 18th Apr 2005 - 17:24 GMT

I believe that the "nothing has changed" mural is gone. Why are you guys scared of a painting on a wall? These paintings are in an inner city area. Just like any place in the world, if you do not like the look of an area then do not go into it. I grew up protestant in Londonderry and I had friends in this area - I used to walk around these paintings all the time. They didn't jump out at me, no one did. There were certain times I did not go here but as I said, it is just like any city in the world.

kilfennanDavy: 18th Apr 2005 - 17:27 GMT

Also note that some of the pics above are also seen very small in the loyalist painting here: http://www.citynoise.org/article/45

Editor: 19th Apr 2005 - 08:28 GMT

correctly linked here

mon nom: 11th Jun 2005 - 14:07 GMT

Jamie said "Dude don't come to Ireland. The Irish are the biggest bunch of racists you'll ever meet"

Rofl. You don't even know what racism is. Browsing this site along with your comment "They seem... normal to me. Everyday scenes. That's pretty fucked up right?" make me think you want people to think "wow, look what he's living in! I feel so sorry for him" or something. If you actually live here or come here a lot, you will know that it's not like the murals anymore. It's quite peaceful. In fact, Northern Ireland is the safest place to live in the UK.

Take a look at this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3156680.stm

I don't know how to link shit on this site, so if that doesn't automatically link just paste the address in the address bar of your browser (which should be Mozilla Firefox btw).

Belfast is safe. Those murals etc. were painted when it wasn't safe and there was a lot of equality.

Stop giving foreigners the wrong idea, Jamie.

Jamie: 11th Jun 2005 - 15:33 GMT

This site is about sharing the environment around you. This was where i lived, and this waswhat i posted. Simple as

Peter: 13th Jun 2005 - 13:40 GMT

not to mention... we're not stupid. we see the news. weve taken history. we know whats up and what was up in NI. i think jamie's entries have been spot-on, in regards to both the history of the place and the current state of things. i aprpeciate his entries.

Cincinnati: 15th Jun 2005 - 05:04 GMT

Was doing some research and stumbled upon this blog. My o my the hatred people. It makes me glad my 'Mick ancestors (local terminalogy for Irish descent) came to the states. Cincinnati via Broooklyn NY. Even AFTER the darn famine. Circa 1900. Grandpa ended up an orphan, but survived with his 8thgrade education and automobile factory work until he died at 61 of heart attack. Our family is doing excellent here, even with me being a Catholic and all, married to a woman for 15 years of Protestant /Scott descent (among other including American Indian). 4 children attending Catholic school and also Baptist church. Guess if I visited you both sides would want to shoot my babies. I hope someday you folk will de-escalate the crap and get along. Maybe? Because it is very sad to read. I have cousins in Ireland, but they are so far south and removed, these type subjects never come up in conversation. Usually the damn housing prices is all they want to talk about.

juicyd: 26th Jun 2005 - 23:15 GMT

i lived in east belfast for years and i tell ya sumfin, it IS one of the safest places in the world to live. where do u guys get this crap from that its not good, or watever. i had the same from a couple o scottish guys wen they came over. askin me if it was like people runnin round with guns, shootin peoples heads of as soon as u walked out the door. i says nah thats bull shit. u mite see or hear the odd thing but thats it. it very rarely goes on like it used to.

AirdrieMK: 20th Jul 2005 - 16:21 GMT

Your last comment about the North stipulates what many people think as being stereo type due to the past troubles. Normally it is due to igmorant people - eg on a recent visit to England I had the misfortune of sharing a taxi with a public school girl type women, it was a hackney (for american readers this is a large automobile which holds 5 people and driver) and there where other people sharing also due to a train cancellation caused by the London bombings - anyway....she proceeded to talk of Scotland and how she had never been and thought that Glasgow was in the highlands and would be around 4 hours on plane journey from london (55 mins). And was also of the impression that we still ware kilts daily - Cmon get a grip Mrs!!! Stereo Types is my point here, I am sending her to the Bogside next!!!!

E Flat Major 7th: 2nd Aug 2005 - 03:49 GMT

I grew up close to Belfast and moved into the city two years ago. Although there are areas all over the province where it is unsafe (including the village where I grew up), surely this is true of any city in the UK? I have friends on both "sides" who have strong political convictions, but they don't let it affect their relationships with people from the opposite religion, whereas perhaps their parents might have. The murals are fucked up, of course, but I don't think they represent the broad spectrum, just a small minority. I don't purport to be an expert on the subject, having been fortunate enough to be sheltered from many aspects of the troubles - I'm still often shocked when my friends from both east and west Belfast relate stories from their youths. However, Belfast is a fantastic city to live in, and 90% of the people are unconditionally friendly.

Element: 2nd Aug 2005 - 04:22 GMT

It's irritating that every time I try to look at something about Northern Ireland, all the posts are swamped with sectarian comments. Wading thorugh these I've come across a few ill-informed, distainful comments about irish people. Don't tar us all with the same brush please.

Peter: 2nd Aug 2005 - 13:45 GMT

element: it is irritating, isnt it? many times, i've had the exact same thoughts as you re: the comments to this post...

Fiona: 19th Aug 2005 - 14:38 GMT

Northern Ireland is simply the best place to live in UK. I live in England, but because I have been to Northern Ireland so many times (County Armagh) I feel more like that is my home, the people are the friendliest I've ever met, and yes it is very safe, even for catholics, I'm catholic and i feel safer there. I hate this damn country (England) and I want to go back to Northern Ireland.

Jeremy: 3rd Oct 2005 - 14:19 GMT

Jamie your a right twat, you call the irish racist i've lived here for 6 years in a modern diverse multicultural society that does a lot more for its foreign immigrants than my home nation of england, the irish have mutual respect for immigrants as they share the same history of being downtrodding by a foreign nation and it is this reason that ireland is being held up as an example to the world to show what can be achieved by a relatively small nation rich in culture and heritage yet modern and diverse.

Peter: 3rd Oct 2005 - 15:44 GMT

jeremy: i hate to tell you, but the image you present of NI isnt necessarily congruent with the image of NI that the rest of the world sees...

mark: 12th Nov 2005 - 20:33 GMT

"northern Ireland" is presented to the world as a legitimate, legal nation but that it is not. The border was gerrymandered and threats of war used against a country which had the whole of Ulster for genarations. anyone who distroys such a ancient jewel will have what is coming to them. No Empire lasts forever and as the old guard once sang..." Ireland was Ireland when England was a pup, and Ireland will be Ireland when England's f**ked up."

Jamie: 12th Nov 2005 - 20:58 GMT

Not to piss on your parade cause i agree with yoou in principle. But i feel a need to commet on a couple of points you just raised, namely "No Empire lasts forever " and "Ireland will be Ireland when England's fucked up."". It might have escaped you that England has no empire, and has been quite severly fucked up since, well for a long long time really. But we (and when i say we i mean you) still don't have a united Ireland. The problems of Northern Ireland are just that. The problems of Northern Ireland. It is no longer anything to do with England or the UK, or even The Republic of Ireland. It's all bitching and infighting which has lost it's way. and now i'm up here on my soapbox again. and i promised myself i'd stop. and look what you've made me go do. and i really must stop beginning my sentences with "and".

Katie: 22nd Jan 2006 - 21:44 GMT

Northern Ireland is part of the UK. So id say it does have something to do with it. I think a lot of people here dont really know what they are talking about iv got to say.

Craigy: 28th Jan 2006 - 17:33 GMT

"
I believe that the "nothing has changed" mural is gone. Why are you guys scared of a painting on a wall? These paintings are in an inner city area. Just like any place in the world, if you do not like the look of an area then do not go into it. I grew up protestant in Londonderry and I had friends in this area - I used to walk around these paintings all the time. They didn't jump out at me, no one did. There were certain times I did not go here but as I said, it is just like any city in the world."

I'm from the Bogside, I have to agree 100% with Davy.
I've lived around the world, seen real racism and been at the end of it at times myself.
(London)Derry is one of the nicest places you can go, with most of the locals being generally friendly, especially to outsiders, regardless what side of the fence they are on.
I think you're painting a false picture on this site, we live in a civilised, safe part of the world, not friggin Beruit!

Fionnừala R: 23rd Apr 2006 - 11:16 GMT

Hello, I am from Portadown, Co. Armagh and I have to say that most of the people on dis do nah no wat dey r talkin bit! yas are all talkin aload o crap. I lived In Portadown as a wee child and I'v ben lookin back frm we came till CRAPPY ENGLAND. I hate it here and I don't feel safe at all! I am scared of bein murdered r raped...etc. Ya see dat never gon on over home. It is such a lovely place I will nah stand fr people talkin bout Northern Ireland lik da! its aload o bull as dey say over home. I just wanna go back. I get depressed because I miss it so much. Out playin football wi all da lads lol, goin up the town. I'd b scared till do all dat here. All I do here is sit at d computer wishin i was home agen. and fr your information: Northern Ireland is the safest place til live in the UK (even do it shudnt b classed as UK)Coz its part of Ireland realli (yeh!yeh! get over urselfs u british bastards!)luk at it on a map and u'll see its no longer part of England and it never will be! GIV IRELAND BACK TILL THE IRISH!

taylor: 24th Apr 2006 - 02:00 GMT

fuck that giv ireland back till the irish im frm tyrone an poud an prod we introduced civilized behaviour wen u all wer fucking barbarians and slaughtering the scottish an english hundreds of years ago dats how dis shit started in the first place

taylor: 24th Apr 2006 - 02:04 GMT

an also there might not be as much of wot used to be in the news but their is violence and criminality in estates in certain towns an citys ,an they r prone to sectarian tendecies ,an before any one wants to argue with that i know an have done time for it

Jamie: 14th Jun 2006 - 22:18 GMT

i've just sat and read this entire thread end to end and i have to say, i think there are a lot of sticks being firmly grasped by the wrong ends. Northern Ireland is a lovely place to live, and i miss it daily. Parts of Belfast are diverse and multicultural. Parts of Belfast are still sectarian ghettos and are still extremely dangerous places for outsiders, but this is true of all cities.

Yes, Northern Ireland is technically a province of the United Kingdom, but there is a huge slice of the british public who simply don't realise this, as i found out when i decided to move there "What money do they use there?", "Don't you need some kind of work permit?" - and these questions came from highly educated people. One of them being the managing director of the company which i was leaving to move to NI.

My point however is, british people don't care about Northern Ireland. We hear these comments "British Bastards!" and suchlike, but they are misdirected. Event the British governemt, the incompetent rabble that they are have stated on record in some kind of treaty with the government of the Republic of Ireland that they hold "no strategic interest in the six northern counties of the island of ireland.

Northern Ireland additionally is a huge drain on the UK resources, as a disproportionate amount of time and money is spent on policing a population of a mere 1.5 million ish, smaller than most cities. The only reason NI remains a part of the UK is the fact that a majority of it's population are still staunchy protestant, staunchly loyal to the crown (in a way which most english people would find laughable) and see themselves as british citizens.

If the british government ever decided "fuck it, we can't be arsed" got on the phone to the irish government and said "right, you deal with them!" the problems would continue. The situation would be immediately reversed and the protestant paramilitary groups would go absolutely mental. There would be an immediate return to the kind of bloodshed of the 60s and 70s.

You see there's no easy answer. Most people with opinions on this matter are often blinded by them, by hatred, by indoctrination. I certainly don't proclain to be an authority on all things ulster but i know more than any other english person i know on the subject and i feel i can be unbiased as i have lived and worked wihin both the nationalist and loyalist communities and seen both sides of the divide from a completely neutral perspective.

But this won't end the argument; of that i'm sure. I just thought i'd chip in my two pence (again)

barry: 15th Jun 2006 - 00:49 GMT

You no know alot more about some things than alot of Irish to.

Patrick McMahon: 21st Jul 2006 - 01:54 GMT

Its ha tobe the Irish inme. Aye,aim part o irish but more oft the roman in me. Hackneyed as I am, wot wid the Mohican of bakyard descent, I find it difficult not to read the thread of this argument. Twas lookin'aofr the quote of the Guard, ..Ireland was Ireland...again! I've got to believe I've found it. You see it's what Ireland is! right now!! NOt what Ireland will be. It's what Ireland alway has been. Rough and Rowdy, given to fierceness and heart..the word "Ire--land", thnk upon it to find the rythm of it..is it Violent or Independant, Is it perhaps caught in a conundrum of an insistance on a point that has long since passed, the cusp of a disagreemet that can't be easily admitted to and settled for once and all. Yes, Ireland is beautiful beyond words oft said. Many a tear and much blood has been shed for that beauty. Are there enough Irelanders left to keep the Beauty and be loose of the Beast...surely that will save us all, won't it? You see folks, there are other in the world who care about Ireland and a Peace for all of you and all of us together. No more war. A whole generation of us have come and almost gone, believing it could happen. fHow may of you feel that way. How may billions of souls have wished for it. Imagine, theres no fighting, a simple brotherhood of Men and Women together. I think Lennon saw this, and expressed his feelings for all the cultural violence in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales together, in a song. Simple, yet a really good idea. Dare I wave an olive branch...Peace

Rí Niall: 2nd Oct 2006 - 17:03 GMT

rite this is bollocks, i read most of this n its a pile of shite. the only places that are dangerous 2 outsiders is the rundown estates, mainly places lyk ballymacash(loyalist) or turflodge(republican), simply bcos the younger generation r ill-educated n dont understand wats happend here, theyv been raised 2 h8 the other side no mater wat, they r the idiots hu say "british bastards" n mean all british ppl, or shout "kill all huns" n mean all protestants, proper educated republicans hu no wat has exactly happend here dnt mean that wen the say those things, republicans are against british rule by the british government and agaisnt the british army stationed on irish soil, n wen a republican says hun it is referin 2 the british army and the police force ONLY. incase any1 didnt notice those murals at the top of the page r anti police murals, they dont say anything about protestants or republicans or paramilitaries, which u will find is very common in nationalist murals, ther is IRA murals but not a gr8 deal of them, wer as loyalist murals almost always hav UDA or UVF in them, which i think wuld b more intimidatin 2 outsiders cin a big sign sayin WELCOME 2 LOYALIST BALLYMACASH n cin a big mural wit men in masks holdin guns sayin "NO SURRENDER". any1 hu doesnt live here or has only seen the murals on this page u need 2 c loyalist murals which promote their fite 2 control the irish n compare them 2 irish 1s 4 solidarity 4 the fite 4 freedom n murals about innocent ppl killed by the british army or the RUC, n ul c wat murals r really scary

eva: 27th Dec 2006 - 14:02 GMT

Derry has a major problem with violent sectarian attacks against Catholics by outlawed protestant paramilitaries.

seamus: 29th Dec 2006 - 21:35 GMT

Hey, am from the south and can honestly say that few people want that boggey dull cornor of ireland in the rpublic. Imagine this people, 600,000 disaffected catholics in the north almost bankrupted the massive british economy, How the fuck is tiny ireland going to afford to govern 1,000,000 disaffected protestants who will bomb the arss off us in the south and probaly ethnic cleanse the norries(northern catholics}. O the future is so bleak!

kelly: 4th Jan 2007 - 19:44 GMT

wow...this thread is so ridiculous....no one seems to understand a thing about the troubles but talks like an expert.

barry: 12th Feb 2007 - 16:40 GMT

in response to that,there are so many varying and contrating viewpoints of 'the troubles' it's impossible to categorise what has happened into one master answer,instead we must understand the plethora of viewpoints interwoven into a multitude of factors ie;political stance,experiences,education!its only through this that all can begin to grasp the understanding of the troubles and moves towards,in my opinion,a depoliticisation of the irish problem to take a furthering humanitarian standpoint in aid of the economy and people as a whole.
although being brought up in derry ive experienced the troubles first hand,lost family to them and through my education have taken a republican stance,as in my opinion, the unionists have used fascism to maintain control.
it also revolts me as to how the world views NI,im at uni in scotland and the social problems of sectarianism through sport is to a further extreme to what i have witnessed in recent years in NI.

Sandra: 22nd Apr 2007 - 22:49 GMT

I stayed in Northern Ireland for five years,and found the scenery beautifull,and house prices were cheap.
The weather is awful,with rain most days,The people are friendly,However Racism does excist,and unless you are irish then you are never really excepted.Defnitley do not go there if you are coloured

hannah: 15th May 2007 - 13:00 GMT

i think it is very unfair how people judge us in northern ireland because of some murals. Some of the comments above are really biased. Not all Northern irish peple are secterian. i am from derry and my mum is a protestant and my dad is a catholic. people who have never been to the north don't know what they are talking about. Yes there is some secterian violence, but it is rare and i have lived here all my life and half the people who slag of the north for being racist i've bet they never even been here and met the people from here. Don't judge northern ireland because of one persons opinion.

Aoife: 15th May 2007 - 13:13 GMT

too right Hannah!! (London) Derry is a good place to live just think about all da people being knifed over in london and yous are all saying that here is the worst place to live look around at the rest of the world people. open your eyes

Aingeal: 8th Apr 2008 - 09:25 GMT

Being from the Bogside, Doire, (Derry). I've developed a strong sense of awareness, passion for all people, and the need to uphold my Irish heritage. I was saddened to read Seamus's (from the south) comments. I now feel even more Irish then he, because we in the Bogside fought for our rights as Irishmen and women against the british/ruc's run of sectarian discrimination of our Irish/catholic upbringing. I've met a lot of good friends (some of whom are life-long friends) from the protestant waterside area of the city who have no hesitation in enjoying the craic over here in the westbank area of the city. Those murals painted by the wonderfully talented 'bogside artists' represented our struggle during that aweful period I was growing up. Most of the murals depicted in the bogside tell the story of one battle, yes one battle, its a little piece of history. I hope someday our city is reunited, nevermind Ireland.